auto turning off of voice menus?

Discussion:

Christy Schulte

2007-06-07 17:53:19 UTC

I'm curious, is it normal for rockbox, specifically on the IAudio, to turn
off voice announcements when the battery gets low?

We had a situation where Amy's IAuio was low on battery power, and when she
tried using it after recharging it wouldn't talk. A sighted friend took a
look at it and discovered that the voice option was turned off. Curious if
this is normal, and if so if there could be an option to disable that?

Christy

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/837 - Release Date: 6/6/2007
2:03 PM

Paul Erkens

2007-06-07 22:38:39 UTC

Permalink

Hi Christy and Amy,

It's not normal behaviour as far as I know, that the voice feature turns off
under certain conditions on an IAudio x5. I suppose it's a bug. I have an
IAudio x5 myself, and it also happens sometimes when you exit the recording
screen by holding the power switch a bit too long. You need to flick the
power switch, to get out of the recording monitor screen. But if you keep it
pushed up too long, the device shuts off and after turning it back on, the
voice menus feature is set to no. To fix this if it does happen to you
again, just do the following. First read, then try.

If you have an option called "recent bookmarks" in your main menu, that item
is at the top of the screen when you turn the x5 on. If you did not turn on
the option for recent bookmarks however, the device powers up with the menu
cursor on "files", to begin with. What you should do, is turn the voice
option back on, and you can do that without speech feedback if you know the
way through the menu system till voiced menus. Here's how to do that.

0. Power down and restart your x5, to have a well defined starting point for
the menu cursor.

1. If the option for recent bookmarks is there, begin by arrowing down 4
times, and you'll be on settings. If the unit powers up with the cursor on
files, then settings is 3 times down from there. Of course you can't see
what you're doing, but if you did not turn on the recent bookmarks feature,
then you can be sure you are on files when you first power up.

2. Once arrowed down in the main menu, to go into the settings menu, push
right.

3. You are now in the settings submenu, one level down from the main menu.
The cursor in this menu will land on "sound settings", which is the top most
item by default, inside settings. From here, arrow down once and you are on
general settings.

4. Push right to enter the general settings submenu, which lies two levels
down from the main menu.

5. In general settings, the new menu has playback at the top, and voice at
the very bottom. It's easiest to arrow up once from here, so you jump from
playback right to voice.

6. Again, push right to enter the voice menu. This is 3 levels down from the
main menu.

7. In the voice menu here, the top most option is the one we need to turn
on. It's named voice menus. Arrow right to enter the choice list for voice
menus.

8. This list has yes and no, and because the unit did not speak when you
turned it on, you know that the cursor is likely on "no". Arrow up or down,
doesn't matter which you choose, and you'll land on yes.

9. Finally, push right to acknowledge.

10. Arrow up and down to test, and the voice should be back.

So to summarize: from the main menu:
3 or 4 down to settings, and right to enter. one down, to general settings,
right to enter. up, to get to voice, right to enter. Once landed on voice
menus, go right to enter. Up once, to move from no to yes, then right to
confirm yes.

So: 3 or 4 down, 1 right, 1 down 1 right, 1 up 2 right, 1 up, 1 right. And
ready you are.

Paul.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christy Schulte" <***@faylen.com>
To: "Rockbox" <***@cool.haxx.se>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: auto turning off of voice menus?

Post by Christy Schulte
I'm curious, is it normal for rockbox, specifically on the IAudio, to turn
off voice announcements when the battery gets low?
We had a situation where Amy's IAuio was low on battery power, and when she
tried using it after recharging it wouldn't talk. A sighted friend took a
look at it and discovered that the voice option was turned off. Curious if
this is normal, and if so if there could be an option to disable that?
Christy
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/837 - Release Date: 6/6/2007
2:03 PM
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/834 - Release Date: 6/5/2007
2:38 PM

Christy Schulte

2007-06-07 23:33:47 UTC

Permalink

Hi,

Ok, well at least that clarifies that, and hopefully it can get fixed
sometime soon. either way thanks for those steps, that helps a lot! By the
way, to get out of the recording screen, it's also possible to use a long
press on the play key... Now whether that's purposeful or not I'm not sure,
but it does work and it doesn't turn off the voice menus that way.

One other question, has anyone noticed their IAudio making random beeps and
bleeps from time to time? This seems to happen both while the voice is
playing and with actual mp3 songs, which tells me it's not the voice file
we're using.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockbox-***@cool.haxx.se
[mailto:rockbox-***@cool.haxx.se]On Behalf Of Paul Erkens
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:39 PM
To: Rockbox
Subject: Re: auto turning off of voice menus?

Hi Christy and Amy,

It's not normal behaviour as far as I know, that the voice feature turns off
under certain conditions on an IAudio x5. I suppose it's a bug. I have an
IAudio x5 myself, and it also happens sometimes when you exit the recording
screen by holding the power switch a bit too long. You need to flick the
power switch, to get out of the recording monitor screen. But if you keep it
pushed up too long, the device shuts off and after turning it back on, the
voice menus feature is set to no. To fix this if it does happen to you
again, just do the following. First read, then try.

If you have an option called "recent bookmarks" in your main menu, that item
is at the top of the screen when you turn the x5 on. If you did not turn on
the option for recent bookmarks however, the device powers up with the menu
cursor on "files", to begin with. What you should do, is turn the voice
option back on, and you can do that without speech feedback if you know the
way through the menu system till voiced menus. Here's how to do that.

0. Power down and restart your x5, to have a well defined starting point for
the menu cursor.

1. If the option for recent bookmarks is there, begin by arrowing down 4
times, and you'll be on settings. If the unit powers up with the cursor on
files, then settings is 3 times down from there. Of course you can't see
what you're doing, but if you did not turn on the recent bookmarks feature,
then you can be sure you are on files when you first power up.

2. Once arrowed down in the main menu, to go into the settings menu, push
right.

3. You are now in the settings submenu, one level down from the main menu.
The cursor in this menu will land on "sound settings", which is the top most
item by default, inside settings. From here, arrow down once and you are on
general settings.

4. Push right to enter the general settings submenu, which lies two levels
down from the main menu.

5. In general settings, the new menu has playback at the top, and voice at
the very bottom. It's easiest to arrow up once from here, so you jump from
playback right to voice.

6. Again, push right to enter the voice menu. This is 3 levels down from the
main menu.

7. In the voice menu here, the top most option is the one we need to turn
on. It's named voice menus. Arrow right to enter the choice list for voice
menus.

8. This list has yes and no, and because the unit did not speak when you
turned it on, you know that the cursor is likely on "no". Arrow up or down,
doesn't matter which you choose, and you'll land on yes.

9. Finally, push right to acknowledge.

10. Arrow up and down to test, and the voice should be back.

So to summarize: from the main menu:
3 or 4 down to settings, and right to enter. one down, to general settings,
right to enter. up, to get to voice, right to enter. Once landed on voice
menus, go right to enter. Up once, to move from no to yes, then right to
confirm yes.

So: 3 or 4 down, 1 right, 1 down 1 right, 1 up 2 right, 1 up, 1 right. And
ready you are.

Paul.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christy Schulte" <***@faylen.com>
To: "Rockbox" <***@cool.haxx.se>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: auto turning off of voice menus?

pondlife

2007-06-08 08:11:19 UTC

Permalink

Post by Christy Schulte
Ok, well at least that clarifies that, and hopefully it can get fixed
sometime soon.

Patch #7272 - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7272 - should fix this.

Please give it a spin if you can.

--
Steve B

RaZorbacK

2007-06-08 08:35:30 UTC

Permalink

Post by pondlife
Patch #7272 - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7272 - should fix this.
Please give it a spin if you can.

thanks ! Can you briefly give some directions about how to
use/intergrate with Rockbox?

Thx

pondlife

2007-06-08 09:00:14 UTC

Permalink

Post by pondlife

Can you briefly give some directions about how to use/integrate with

Rockbox?

Yes! First you need to have a working compiler. I'm using Windows, so I use
Cygwin - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CygwinDevelopment
(You could also use VMWare, or Linux - but I've no experience in either.)

Once you can compile your own Rockbox (which really isn't that hard) you can
then apply patches to the source code and compile a modified Rockbox. See
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WorkingWithPatches#Applying_A_Patch
for details.

Or, seeing as I'm impatient, I may commit this patch sooner rather than
later and it'll then be in a current build. I could do with some feedback
from people who record often though...
--
Steve B

"RaZorbacK" <***@sof-paradise.info> wrote in message news:***@sof-paradise.info...
hi

Post by pondlife
Patch #7272 - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7272 - should fix this.
Please give it a spin if you can.

thanks ! Can you briefly give some directions about how to
use/intergrate with Rockbox?

Thx

RaZorbacK

2007-06-08 11:48:13 UTC

Permalink

Post by pondlife
Yes! First you need to have a working compiler. I'm using Windows, so I use
Cygwin - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CygwinDevelopment
(You could also use VMWare, or Linux - but I've no experience in either.)

ho many thanks. at last, someone has explained that clearly. I'll give
that a try!

thx

Paul Erkens

2007-06-08 17:07:16 UTC

Permalink

Hi Steve B Pondlife,

As a blind user, I'm in the process of following your directions to prepare
my environment to compile a patched version of rockbox. Patches are
regularly posted, and I'm willing to test them, because rockbox is just too
exciting to not contribute. My question is a bit off topic for this list,
and I hope you can direct me further to a place where this belongs.

I record often, and I would like to test your patches. To do so, I'm
installing the cygwin environment for windows, like you advised. During
setup, I encounter the following accessibility situation.

When asked to choose which packages to install, the interface in cygwin's
setup.exe is not clear to me. There are a few radio buttons on the screen,
out of which the one labeled "curr" is selected, likely telling setup to
install the current versions of the packages on the mirrors on internet. The
view is set to "cathegory" by default.

Once you click a cathegory, it expands and you can choose which tool(s) to
install.

However, having reached the bottom of the screen, there obviously are many
more items, but I don't have a way to scroll down. Page down does nothing,
neither does that work if I first click an item or cathegory, to make the
list gain focus.

Is there a visual element on the screen to scroll down that sighted users
utilize? A scroll bar or something else? I checked, but my screen reader
does not see it. It must therefore be a non-standard, custom windows
control, if it's there at all. I need to know how to scroll the display
down, in order to complete cygwin installation, so I can move ahead towards
trying out the rockbox patch. Can you tell me more?

Paul.

Peter Herngaard

2007-06-08 23:55:42 UTC

Permalink

Hello Paul
I have the same experience, and the selection of packages in the Cygwin
setup program is not accessible to JAWS, and I presume other screen readers.
Simply bad luck.
There is probably nothing to do about it.

Best Wishes,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Erkens" <***@xs4all.nl>
To: "Rockbox" <***@cool.haxx.se>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Post by Paul Erkens
Hi Steve B Pondlife,
As a blind user, I'm in the process of following your directions to
prepare my environment to compile a patched version of rockbox. Patches
are regularly posted, and I'm willing to test them, because rockbox is
just too exciting to not contribute. My question is a bit off topic for
this list, and I hope you can direct me further to a place where this
belongs.
I record often, and I would like to test your patches. To do so, I'm
installing the cygwin environment for windows, like you advised. During
setup, I encounter the following accessibility situation.
When asked to choose which packages to install, the interface in cygwin's
setup.exe is not clear to me. There are a few radio buttons on the screen,
out of which the one labeled "curr" is selected, likely telling setup to
install the current versions of the packages on the mirrors on internet.
The view is set to "cathegory" by default.
Once you click a cathegory, it expands and you can choose which tool(s) to
install.
However, having reached the bottom of the screen, there obviously are many
more items, but I don't have a way to scroll down. Page down does nothing,
neither does that work if I first click an item or cathegory, to make the
list gain focus.
Is there a visual element on the screen to scroll down that sighted users
utilize? A scroll bar or something else? I checked, but my screen reader
does not see it. It must therefore be a non-standard, custom windows
control, if it's there at all. I need to know how to scroll the display
down, in order to complete cygwin installation, so I can move ahead
towards trying out the rockbox patch. Can you tell me more?
Paul.

Paul Erkens

2007-06-09 11:49:06 UTC

Permalink

Hi Peter Herngaard,

Regarding the inaccessible screen in the Cygwin compiler setup screen that
we're trying to use to compile patches into rockbox, I'm preparing a message
for the cygwin mailing list. That too is an open source effort, and although
their policy on their website is very discouraging to send messages to their
list, I'll do so anyway. If it gets fixed, we can help in testing the
patches that rockbox developers are creating, based on our bug reports or
feature requests. I'll keep you posted.

Paul.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Herngaard" <***@email.dk>
To: "Rockbox" <***@cool.haxx.se>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 1:55 AM
Subject: Re: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Post by Peter Herngaard
Hello Paul
I have the same experience, and the selection of packages in the Cygwin
setup program is not accessible to JAWS, and I presume other screen readers.
Simply bad luck.
There is probably nothing to do about it.
Best Wishes,
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Post by Paul Erkens
Hi Steve B Pondlife,
As a blind user, I'm in the process of following your directions to
prepare my environment to compile a patched version of rockbox. Patches
are regularly posted, and I'm willing to test them, because rockbox is
just too exciting to not contribute. My question is a bit off topic for
this list, and I hope you can direct me further to a place where this
belongs.
I record often, and I would like to test your patches. To do so, I'm
installing the cygwin environment for windows, like you advised. During
setup, I encounter the following accessibility situation.
When asked to choose which packages to install, the interface in cygwin's
setup.exe is not clear to me. There are a few radio buttons on the
screen, out of which the one labeled "curr" is selected, likely telling
setup to install the current versions of the packages on the mirrors on
internet. The view is set to "cathegory" by default.
Once you click a cathegory, it expands and you can choose which tool(s)
to install.
However, having reached the bottom of the screen, there obviously are
many more items, but I don't have a way to scroll down. Page down does
nothing, neither does that work if I first click an item or cathegory, to
make the list gain focus.
Is there a visual element on the screen to scroll down that sighted users
utilize? A scroll bar or something else? I checked, but my screen reader
does not see it. It must therefore be a non-standard, custom windows
control, if it's there at all. I need to know how to scroll the display
down, in order to complete cygwin installation, so I can move ahead
towards trying out the rockbox patch. Can you tell me more?
Paul.

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 2:21 PM

RaZorbacK

2007-06-10 23:28:05 UTC

Permalink

Hi all,

Post by Paul Erkens
Regarding the inaccessible screen in the Cygwin compiler setup screen
that we're trying to use to compile patches into rockbox, I'm preparing
a message for the cygwin mailing list. That too is an open source
effort, and although their policy on their website is very discouraging
to send messages to their list, I'll do so anyway. If it gets fixed, we
can help in testing the patches that rockbox developers are creating,
based on our bug reports or feature requests. I'll keep you posted.

It may be cool if someone could make a special installer containing
only the necessary packages? Couldn't it be solve our problem?

Linus Nielsen Feltzing

2007-06-11 04:59:43 UTC

Permalink

Post by RaZorbacK
It may be cool if someone could make a special installer containing
only the necessary packages? Couldn't it be solve our problem?

We once had that, and it instead caused other problems, like not staying
in sync with the original Cygwin distribution. It worked quite well for
those who only wanted to compile Rockbox and nothing else. The biggest
problem was that the installation file was rather big, and the author
tried to keep it small by excluding as many non-vital packages as
possible. As Rockbox evolved, more and more of those packages came to
use, and the installation file had to be updated. It soon became quite a
burden to handle that.

Linus

Bluechip

2007-06-11 23:16:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by Linus Nielsen Feltzing

Post by RaZorbacK
It may be cool if someone could make a special installer
containing only the necessary packages? Couldn't it be solve our problem?

We once had that, and it instead caused other problems, like not
staying in sync with the original Cygwin distribution. It worked
quite well for those who only wanted to compile Rockbox and nothing
else. The biggest problem was that the installation file was rather
big, and the author tried to keep it small by excluding as many
non-vital packages as possible. As Rockbox evolved, more and more of
those packages came to use, and the installation file had to be
updated. It soon became quite a burden to handle that.
Linus

I just don't have the time or the inclination to maintain it any
more. Linus summary is quite accurate. However, it DID take a 250MB
download-and-install-with-cygwin-setup down to "a 10MB download,
unzip, click setup - done".

If anybody ever wishes to take over the maintenance I am happy to
pass over all relevant work and tools and outline the procedure
required to update it - and even host it... Basically "run
sysinternals/filemon to track what files are used"

The only problem is (as mentioned above) knowing "of the files not
used which may be used in the imminent future"

Probably best to reply to me off-group if you are interested.

BC

Paul Erkens

2007-06-11 13:15:01 UTC

Permalink

Hi Razor,
Regarding the inaccessible package selection screen in Cygwin. The simplest
solution by far, is to have the Cygwin setup fixed, rather than yet another
custom package. If mainstream stuff is accessible, which given the current
problem is not difficult to correct, everyone works with and talks about the
same thing. I got sighted help using remote desktop yesterday, and I now
have Cygwin installed. I don't know how long the road is, until I can
compile my own rockbox builds though. I'll keep you posted.

Paul.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RaZorbacK" <***@sof-paradise.info>
To: "Rockbox" <***@cool.haxx.se>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Post by RaZorbacK
Hi all,

Post by Paul Erkens
Regarding the inaccessible screen in the Cygwin compiler setup screen
that we're trying to use to compile patches into rockbox, I'm preparing a
message for the cygwin mailing list. That too is an open source effort,
and although their policy on their website is very discouraging to send
messages to their list, I'll do so anyway. If it gets fixed, we can help
in testing the patches that rockbox developers are creating, based on our
bug reports or feature requests. I'll keep you posted.

It may be cool if someone could make a special installer containing only
the necessary packages? Couldn't it be solve our problem?
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
269.8.13/843 - Release Date: 6/10/2007 1:39 PM

Peter Herngaard

2007-06-10 10:23:39 UTC

Permalink

Hello again

I actually found a solution to the Cygwin installation problem which might
be of interest to other screen reader users.

I downloaded setup.exe and installed all in the categories mmentioned in the
Rockbox wiki and then installed the Cross Compiler (my own player is Ipod
Video 5.5 gen and the cross compiler is therefore arm-elf-gcc). After
installation of the cross compiler I thought I was ready to proceed with
making my own build.

Not so fast. I had forgotten adding the cross compiler to my $PATH
environment variable, so I had to do some quick research on environment
vairable conventions in Cygwin before I could start.
Now I have succeeded in compiling my own build for Ipod Video and intend to
play around with patches. However, Rockbox already works very stable on
myIpod.
Many thanks to the rockbox developers. I have made a donation of USD 20.

Best Wishes,
Peter Herngaard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Herngaard" <***@email.dk>
To: "Rockbox" <***@cool.haxx.se>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 1:55 AM
Subject: Re: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Post by Paul Erkens
Hi Steve B Pondlife,
As a blind user, I'm in the process of following your directions to
prepare my environment to compile a patched version of rockbox. Patches
are regularly posted, and I'm willing to test them, because rockbox is
just too exciting to not contribute. My question is a bit off topic for
this list, and I hope you can direct me further to a place where this
belongs.
I record often, and I would like to test your patches. To do so, I'm
installing the cygwin environment for windows, like you advised. During
setup, I encounter the following accessibility situation.
When asked to choose which packages to install, the interface in cygwin's
setup.exe is not clear to me. There are a few radio buttons on the
screen, out of which the one labeled "curr" is selected, likely telling
setup to install the current versions of the packages on the mirrors on
internet. The view is set to "cathegory" by default.
Once you click a cathegory, it expands and you can choose which tool(s)
to install.
However, having reached the bottom of the screen, there obviously are
many more items, but I don't have a way to scroll down. Page down does
nothing, neither does that work if I first click an item or cathegory, to
make the list gain focus.
Is there a visual element on the screen to scroll down that sighted users
utilize? A scroll bar or something else? I checked, but my screen reader
does not see it. It must therefore be a non-standard, custom windows
control, if it's there at all. I need to know how to scroll the display
down, in order to complete cygwin installation, so I can move ahead
towards trying out the rockbox patch. Can you tell me more?
Paul.

daniel dalton

2007-06-09 10:27:37 UTC

Permalink

Hi Paul,

As a blind user, I'm in the process of following your directions to
prepare
my environment to compile a patched version of rockbox. Patches are
regularly posted, and I'm willing to test them, because rockbox is just
too
exciting to not contribute. My question is a bit off topic for this
list,
and I hope you can direct me further to a place where this belongs.

Try the rockbox dev list.
Go to the mailing list link from the rockbox home page for details.

I'm installing the cygwin environment for windows, like you advised.
During
setup, I encounter the following accessibility situation.

When asked to choose which packages to install, the interface in
cygwin's
setup.exe is not clear to me. There are a few radio buttons on the
screen,
out of which the one labeled "curr" is selected, likely telling setup to

install the current versions of the packages on the mirrors on internet.
The
view is set to "cathegory" by default.

Once you click a cathegory, it expands and you can choose which tool(s)
to
install.

However, having reached the bottom of the screen, there obviously are
many
more items, but I don't have a way to scroll down. Page down does
nothing,
neither does that work if I first click an item or cathegory, to make
the
list gain focus.

Is there a visual element on the screen to scroll down that sighted
users
utilize? A scroll bar or something else? I checked, but my screen reader

does not see it. It must therefore be a non-standard, custom windows
control, if it's there at all. I need to know how to scroll the display
down, in order to complete cygwin installation, so I can move ahead
towards
trying out the rockbox patch. Can you tell me more?

I am blind myself and needed sighted help to install cygwin.
It is very good when it is up and running but is quite complicated to
install.
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Good luck!
Daniel.

Paul Erkens

2007-06-09 11:56:30 UTC

Permalink

Hi Daniel,

Regarding the cygwin compiler and its inaccessible setup. Following your
idea, I will get sighted assistance to help me install it, so I can move on.
Meanwhile, I'm awaiting the answer from the cygwin guys, if they answer at
all. Due to the high volume on their list they say, that many of the mails
we send may go unanswered. But it would be awesome if it gets fixed.

Paul.
----- Original Message -----
From: "daniel dalton" <***@gmail.com>
To: "'Rockbox'" <***@cool.haxx.se>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 12:27 PM
Subject: RE: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Post by daniel dalton
Hi Paul,
As a blind user, I'm in the process of following your directions to
prepare
my environment to compile a patched version of rockbox. Patches are
regularly posted, and I'm willing to test them, because rockbox is just
too
exciting to not contribute. My question is a bit off topic for this
list,
and I hope you can direct me further to a place where this belongs.
Try the rockbox dev list.
Go to the mailing list link from the rockbox home page for details.
I'm installing the cygwin environment for windows, like you advised.
During
setup, I encounter the following accessibility situation.
When asked to choose which packages to install, the interface in
cygwin's
setup.exe is not clear to me. There are a few radio buttons on the
screen,
out of which the one labeled "curr" is selected, likely telling setup to
install the current versions of the packages on the mirrors on internet.
The
view is set to "cathegory" by default.
Once you click a cathegory, it expands and you can choose which tool(s)
to
install.
However, having reached the bottom of the screen, there obviously are
many
more items, but I don't have a way to scroll down. Page down does
nothing,
neither does that work if I first click an item or cathegory, to make
the
list gain focus.
Is there a visual element on the screen to scroll down that sighted
users
utilize? A scroll bar or something else? I checked, but my screen reader
does not see it. It must therefore be a non-standard, custom windows
control, if it's there at all. I need to know how to scroll the display
down, in order to complete cygwin installation, so I can move ahead
towards
trying out the rockbox patch. Can you tell me more?
I am blind myself and needed sighted help to install cygwin.
It is very good when it is up and running but is quite complicated to
install.
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Good luck!
Daniel.
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2:21 PM

Andrew Hart

2007-06-11 14:24:35 UTC

Permalink

Sorry about the lateness of this reply, but haven't had a chance to
sitdown and write it.

Paul Erkens wrote:
[snip]

Post by Paul Erkens
installing the cygwin environment for windows, like you advised. During
setup, I encounter the following accessibility situation.
When asked to choose which packages to install, the interface in
cygwin's setup.exe is not clear to me. There are a few radio buttons on

[snip]

Two true. The package management screen in the Cygwin installer is
truly a crappy piece of work. It's mouse only with virtually no
keyboard support for doing anything important.

Post by Paul Erkens
However, having reached the bottom of the screen, there obviously are
many more items, but I don't have a way to scroll down. Page down does
nothing, neither does that work if I first click an item or cathegory,
to make the list gain focus.
Is there a visual element on the screen to scroll down that sighted
users utilize? A scroll bar or something else? I checked, but my screen
reader does not see it. It must therefore be a non-standard, custom
windows control, if it's there at all. I need to know how to scroll the
display down, in order to complete cygwin installation, so I can move
ahead towards trying out the rockbox patch. Can you tell me more?

Yes. There are buttons on the screen for scrolling up and down. They
are represented by graphics hwich change when the mouse hovers over
them. The scroll-up button is located above the package list while the
scroll-down button is positioned below the list. I discovered this when
I got a working pair of eyes (attached to a live colleague) to look at
the installer and tell me what was what. I was able to label these
graphics--which tooka bit of mucking around--but now I can click on
them to scroll the screen. Using the Cygwin installer is now only a
little less painful than having a filling done at the dentist's, but it
is at least usable now. I haven't needed to use the installer for a
while now, but I think there are also graphics (if I remember correctly)
that appear after each package which indicate the current state
(installed or not). In contrast, the words which appear after each item
indicate the action to perform (uninstall, reinstall, etc.). If you
want, I can send you my JAWS .jgf file containing the labelled graphics,
but depending on your screen resolution, they may or may not work for
you. If you use a screen reader other than JAWS, I'm afraid my .jgf
file won't help you at all.

Hth,
Andrew.

Nix

2007-06-11 21:18:31 UTC

Permalink

Post by Andrew Hart
Two true. The package management screen in the Cygwin installer is
truly a crappy piece of work. It's mouse only with virtually no
keyboard support for doing anything important.

It actually used to be worse. At least it's resizeable now...

I think the real problem is that nobody has the time to make it better,
not that cgf and corinna are actually out to make life hard for blind
people! They'd probably be responsive to suggestions to improve it
(using standard widgets is sort of hard as they're doing something
rather strange in that dialog, but maybe there's a way to make the
custom tree widget screen-reader-friendly?)

--
`... in the sense that dragons logically follow evolution so they would
be able to wield metal.' --- Kenneth Eng's colourless green ideas sleep
furiously

Grant Hardy

2007-06-11 22:41:09 UTC

Permalink

Hi there,

I am very confident in terms of installing and using Rockbox, but I
understand that the majority of people who aren't are the visually impaired
users of Rockbox. Also, even those who are not blind will probably only use
the installer if they're "beginning" Rockbox users. In other words, many
people will happily continue to visit the Daily Builds page and simply unzip
the appropriate file to their player.

With this in mind, I would suggest that a custom tree view and a decorative
interface for the installer is getting a bit overkill, assuming that it will
merely be used to install Rockbox and then forgotten.

I would have imagined a nice, simple dialog with maybe two buttons: Install
Rockbox; View the Manual. When either of these buttons were pushed a dialog
could open where you could pick your device from a combo box, check "Also
install device's bootloader" (if applicable) then hit Go.

Grant

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1:39 PM

Bluechip

2007-06-11 23:21:36 UTC

Permalink

You have misunderstood - the discussion was about how to install the
developers kit on a PC - not how to install Rockbox on a player. I
can see how this mistake was easy to make, not least of all that we
should really be discussing techie-programmer things on the techie
newsgroup rather than here ;)

BC

Post by Grant Hardy
Hi there,
I am very confident in terms of installing and using Rockbox, but I
understand that the majority of people who aren't are the visually impaired
users of Rockbox. Also, even those who are not blind will probably only use
the installer if they're "beginning" Rockbox users. In other words, many
people will happily continue to visit the Daily Builds page and simply unzip
the appropriate file to their player.
With this in mind, I would suggest that a custom tree view and a decorative
interface for the installer is getting a bit overkill, assuming that it will
merely be used to install Rockbox and then forgotten.
I would have imagined a nice, simple dialog with maybe two buttons: Install
Rockbox; View the Manual. When either of these buttons were pushed a dialog
could open where you could pick your device from a combo box, check "Also
install device's bootloader" (if applicable) then hit Go.
Grant
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1:39 PM

Paul Erkens

2007-06-08 14:47:24 UTC

Permalink

Hi Pondlife,

A question about rockbox patches. I don't know much about development
issues. How has this system been arranged? If a patch works for enough
people having tested it, does it in fact get incorporated into the current
builds, or is it a stand-alone solution for a problem someone is having at
the time, while the mainstream goes without it?

Paul.
----- Original Message -----
From: "pondlife" <***@ntlworld.com>
To: <***@cool.haxx.se>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Post by pondlife

Post by Christy Schulte
Ok, well at least that clarifies that, and hopefully it can get fixed
sometime soon.

Patch #7272 - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7272 - should fix this.
Please give it a spin if you can.
--
Steve B
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2:03 PM

Christy Schulte

2007-06-08 17:15:21 UTC

Permalink

So, from other messages, am I understanding correctly that there's no way to
apply a patch without recompiling?
Also, should this fix the voice menus shutting off under other
circumstances? Or only at the recording monitor screen?
Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: rockbox-***@cool.haxx.se
[mailto:rockbox-***@cool.haxx.se]On Behalf Of pondlife
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 3:11 AM
To: ***@cool.haxx.se
Subject: Re: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Post by Christy Schulte
Ok, well at least that clarifies that, and hopefully it can get fixed
sometime soon.

Patch #7272 - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7272 - should fix this.

Please give it a spin if you can.

--
Steve B

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2:03 PM

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2:21 PM

pondlife

2007-06-09 12:56:00 UTC

Permalink

Post by Christy Schulte
So, from other messages, am I understanding correctly that there's no way to
apply a patch without recompiling?

Correct. Patches affect the source code, not the binary. You might be able
to get someone to compile for you, but you'd need to do it yourself if you
intend to keep up-to-date.

Post by Christy Schulte
Also, should this fix the voice menus shutting off under other
circumstances? Or only at the recording monitor screen?

I don't know of any other circumstances, but please let me know if you do!

--
Steve B

Christy Schulte

2007-06-09 16:25:37 UTC

Permalink

Hi Steve,

Amy, my roommate, had a situation the other day where after the battery got
extremely low, the voicing got disabled. No one else has mentioned this or
verified that they've seen it, and hers is a new unit so it's hard to know
if it's reproduceable or not. I'm sure one of us will say if it happens
again though, and we'll try to pay more attention to specific circumstances.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockbox-***@cool.haxx.se
[mailto:rockbox-***@cool.haxx.se]On Behalf Of pondlife
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:56 AM
To: ***@cool.haxx.se
Subject: Re: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Post by Christy Schulte
So, from other messages, am I understanding correctly that there's no way to
apply a patch without recompiling?

Correct. Patches affect the source code, not the binary. You might be able
to get someone to compile for you, but you'd need to do it yourself if you
intend to keep up-to-date.

Post by Christy Schulte
Also, should this fix the voice menus shutting off under other
circumstances? Or only at the recording monitor screen?

I don't know of any other circumstances, but please let me know if you do!

--
Steve B

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10:46 AM

Paul Erkens

2007-06-08 14:44:54 UTC

Permalink

Hi Christy,

Thanks for telling me about long play to exit the recording screen. It's
better than tiring my power switch, because it feels so delicate. And
indeed, the voice turn off bug does not occur that way. Good to know.

Did you look at the beep volume in rockbox? I don't know if it helps to get
rid of your problem, where IAudio x5 makes random beeps, but I'd like to
know what it does and if you tried it.

Paul.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christy Schulte" <***@faylen.com>
To: "Rockbox" <***@cool.haxx.se>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:33 AM
Subject: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Post by Christy Schulte
Hi,
Ok, well at least that clarifies that, and hopefully it can get fixed
sometime soon. either way thanks for those steps, that helps a lot! By the
way, to get out of the recording screen, it's also possible to use a long
press on the play key... Now whether that's purposeful or not I'm not sure,
but it does work and it doesn't turn off the voice menus that way.
One other question, has anyone noticed their IAudio making random beeps and
bleeps from time to time? This seems to happen both while the voice is
playing and with actual mp3 songs, which tells me it's not the voice file
we're using.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:39 PM
To: Rockbox
Subject: Re: auto turning off of voice menus?
Hi Christy and Amy,
It's not normal behaviour as far as I know, that the voice feature turns off
under certain conditions on an IAudio x5. I suppose it's a bug. I have an
IAudio x5 myself, and it also happens sometimes when you exit the recording
screen by holding the power switch a bit too long. You need to flick the
power switch, to get out of the recording monitor screen. But if you keep it
pushed up too long, the device shuts off and after turning it back on, the
voice menus feature is set to no. To fix this if it does happen to you
again, just do the following. First read, then try.
If you have an option called "recent bookmarks" in your main menu, that item
is at the top of the screen when you turn the x5 on. If you did not turn on
the option for recent bookmarks however, the device powers up with the menu
cursor on "files", to begin with. What you should do, is turn the voice
option back on, and you can do that without speech feedback if you know the
way through the menu system till voiced menus. Here's how to do that.
0. Power down and restart your x5, to have a well defined starting point for
the menu cursor.
1. If the option for recent bookmarks is there, begin by arrowing down 4
times, and you'll be on settings. If the unit powers up with the cursor on
files, then settings is 3 times down from there. Of course you can't see
what you're doing, but if you did not turn on the recent bookmarks feature,
then you can be sure you are on files when you first power up.
2. Once arrowed down in the main menu, to go into the settings menu, push
right.
3. You are now in the settings submenu, one level down from the main menu.
The cursor in this menu will land on "sound settings", which is the top most
item by default, inside settings. From here, arrow down once and you are on
general settings.
4. Push right to enter the general settings submenu, which lies two levels
down from the main menu.
5. In general settings, the new menu has playback at the top, and voice at
the very bottom. It's easiest to arrow up once from here, so you jump from
playback right to voice.
6. Again, push right to enter the voice menu. This is 3 levels down from the
main menu.
7. In the voice menu here, the top most option is the one we need to turn
on. It's named voice menus. Arrow right to enter the choice list for voice
menus.
8. This list has yes and no, and because the unit did not speak when you
turned it on, you know that the cursor is likely on "no". Arrow up or down,
doesn't matter which you choose, and you'll land on yes.
9. Finally, push right to acknowledge.
10. Arrow up and down to test, and the voice should be back.
3 or 4 down to settings, and right to enter. one down, to general settings,
right to enter. up, to get to voice, right to enter. Once landed on voice
menus, go right to enter. Up once, to move from no to yes, then right to
confirm yes.
So: 3 or 4 down, 1 right, 1 down 1 right, 1 up 2 right, 1 up, 1 right. And
ready you are.
Paul.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: auto turning off of voice menus?

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Christy Schulte

2007-06-08 17:23:29 UTC

Permalink

We did look at the beep volume, mostly to see if it would turn on beeps for
actions like recording but that seems to do nothing as far as we can tell.
What we're hearing though aren't normal beeps like a program would give.
They're more like bleeps or chirps, and they vary in pitch and sound.
They're very hard to describe but it sounds like what you might get from an
old hardware synthesizer that's going bad or is really heavily
overmodulated.
And they happen with playing music not just when the voice is talking.
Though perhaps we'll try a different voice file just in case, unless someone
else can verify this issue with recent builds?

-----Original Message-----
From: rockbox-***@cool.haxx.se
[mailto:rockbox-***@cool.haxx.se]On Behalf Of Paul Erkens
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 9:45 AM
To: Rockbox
Subject: Re: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

Hi Christy,

Thanks for telling me about long play to exit the recording screen. It's
better than tiring my power switch, because it feels so delicate. And
indeed, the voice turn off bug does not occur that way. Good to know.

Did you look at the beep volume in rockbox? I don't know if it helps to get
rid of your problem, where IAudio x5 makes random beeps, but I'd like to
know what it does and if you tried it.

Paul.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christy Schulte" <***@faylen.com>
To: "Rockbox" <***@cool.haxx.se>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:33 AM
Subject: thanks, and some other questions and comments.

No virus found in this incoming message.
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2:21 PM

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